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[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, I'm Steve Adubato, and we kick off this program, talking everything you want, need to know about healthcare with Brian Gragnolati, President and CEO of Atlantic Health System.
And actually just came back, as we're taping this program, from Washington, DC.
The American Hospital Association where you were the former chair.
First of all, welcome Brian.
- Thank you, Steve.
- Talk about that meeting in D.C. and why it was so significant.
- Well, you know, it was the first in-person meeting that we've had at the AHA since '19.
And that, in and of itself, was pretty important, and was very well attended.
We had well over 1,000 people from across the country there.
And the mood was just a sense of relief, almost, that we could come together as a field and have some really important conversations.
And so it was nice to be there, and nice to see colleagues, not on Zoom or Teams.
And to engage in conversations outside the meeting room.
So, all in all, it was several days well spent.
- And I'm sure.
And first I wanna disclose that Atlantic Health, one of the significant underwriters of our healthcare programming at the Caucus Educational Corporation.
But Brian, I'm curious, the major issues that were discussed.
I'm gonna assume, but correct me if I'm off base here that the, obviously the long term impact of COVID on the hospital industry and on those who work in hospitals, but one of the things along those lines is, is there a "quote" great resignation going on in the world of our hospitals?
Brian.
- You know, you're right about the workforce concerns.
And that was a major topic that was discussed in both plenty area, as well as breakout sessions in terms of strategies to deal with that.
But that's clearly the case.
And as you and I have discussed before and have discussed with others, this has been a long period of time that this pandemic has been going on.
Here in the New Jersey area for example, we were first in and saw more intensity really than any other place in the country because at that time we did not know what we were dealing with.
And now as we've gone through these various iterations of variance and the impacts on that it, people are fatigued.
And so it is causing a resignation from healthcare in particular as it's affected other industries but healthcare it's been pronounced.
And so there are a number of strategies that we've taken here at Atlantic, and then, you know were discussed over the weekend, but it starts in- - Washington with your colleagues across the country - Across the country, but it starts by listening to your team members.
You know, you've seen recently that Fortune named us for the 14th consecutive year as a top 100 employer but there were only eight healthcare organizations this year on that list.
And I think that, that talks a little bit about what's going on in healthcare.
But it all starts with listening.
You've gotta obviously address issues around compensation because you know, that is, it's a competitive environment for a limited supply of of folks who do this kind of work but the most important thing and something that we've been doing as a company for a long time is how do you grow your own?
How do you introduce people into the healthcare field?
Maybe they start at dietary or housekeeping.
How do you understand what their aspirations are and what they want to achieve or how do you help them create those aspirations?
And then how do you put the support around them so that they can achieve those?
So we have programs like school at work.
We work with community colleges to give people a chance to be what they can be in healthcare.
And I think that that's one of the keys to our future, to replenish our ranks.
And I know here at Atlantic we're having those conversations and taking those actions and we have been for years but we've doubled down on that and that's what I heard at this national meeting.
- Brian, let me ask you this the nursing crisis, first of all, the term crisis has been used, overused in some ways but there clearly is a crisis going on in nursing.
The issue of quote, traveling nurses, more and more nurses not affiliated with a hospital or a hospital system but moving around from place to place.
So I'm sure it fills gaps but there are issues in problems associated with it.
Not the least of which is how expensive they are.
A and B does that not send the message to quote, staff nurses, hey, wait a minute.
I can make more money if I'm traveling around that can't be a good thing for the healthcare system and the patients and families you serve.
- So, you know, there's two sides to every story.
So I, you know, I- - At least.
- As I've told you before I round a lot in our hospitals and I talk to our team members and, you know, at the beginning of this latest surge that began in January, I was rounding some of the COVID units and I ran into a nurse manager who had lost a couple of her team members to become travelers.
Now, the odd thing was that those travelers were to go within the state of New Jersey, which is not the intent.
So there's a flaw in the system that really enables that 'cause that's really not the purpose but the real issue there for the team members was that they could make a significant amount of money in a short period of time, which helped them pay off their student debt or gave them funds to be able to go to become a CRNA or something else.
And so my point of view on that is understand where they are again, listen, see if we can create programs that can help them.
But in the meantime, while they go away, make sure that our arms are open so when they come back, we're there for them.
And I think that this is a cycle that we're going through.
I think we don't have enough capacity in nursing schools right now.
That's why we're having conversations with several higher learning organizations to help do that.
And the big challenge are clinical preceptors.
And so- - What does that mean?
What's a clinical preceptor?
Got about a minute left, go ahead.
What's a clinical preceptor?
- Sure, so I'm sure early in your career, somebody was at your shoulder trying to help you do what you do and that's really what a clinical preceptor does.
Because we know that the educational curriculum doesn't necessarily cover it all.
And when you get into a clinical setting, you need somebody at your shoulder and at your elbow to do that.
My daughter, for example just became a physical therapist, you know?
She went through a PhD program, she's working, but boy does she rely on her mentors who are at her side in the practice she's in now in Boston, in the Boston area and that's really what we need to do.
So if you step back and think about a lot of people that are retiring earlier now, maybe 55 or something, they're retiring because they don't wanna take a full load of patients in nursing.
You give them these roles where they can be mentors and teachers.
And I think we begin to bring that back in balance.
So here at Atlantic, we put on a very large effort a symposium to try to make sure that we were looking at this problem holistically.
And I think we've got some good solutions that are really emerging.
- Brian Gragnolati, President and CEO of Atlantic Health System.
Brian, I wanna thank you for joining us.
We really appreciate it.
- Thank you.
- I'm Steve Adubato, that's Brian Gragnolati, we'll be right back right after this.
To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.
- We are honored to be joined for the first time by Professor Moya Bansile, who's Co-chair of the Berkeley College Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Advisory Committee.
Professor, good to see you.
- Good morning, Steve, thank you, very happy to be here.
- Describe diversity, equity, inclusion.
A lot of people talk about it, but understanding what it really is and why it matters is a different story.
Talk about it.
- Absolutely, you're so correct.
Diversity, equity and inclusion, they are not just buzzwords or words that roll off the tongue so people can feel good about themselves.
They're actually a set of practices, procedures, and precepts and principles that enable not just companies but individuals to include all peoples to the tables, to their teams, to their events, activities, where people feel included, whether it's based on their race, their gender, their sexual orientation, national origin, a disability, military status.
I mean, there's so many aspects to diversity, and I think sometimes people tend to box it in into a couple of little things, but it's so much broader than that, and I believe that every individual has a responsibility and a duty to promote it.
- Well, let's push this a little further.
You know... And Berkeley College is one of our higher ed partners and I'm curious about this.
Do you think it's, I don't wanna say easier, but that in the higher education community, it seems like there's more receptivity to be engaged in real efforts of diversity, equity and inclusion than it may be for other kinds of organizations outside of higher ed.
Is that just my impression?
- No, you're probably correct and that's because obviously, institutions of higher education, our goal is to teach and to help students to learn and to enter the workforce and in their careers, and we understand that these are the future, this is the future of our country, the future generations.
I mean, eventually, people will retire and move on, and we understand that we're raising up a whole new generation of people, and this is why higher education tends to be more sensitive and welcoming and engaging in this DEI space, I believe.
- I'm sorry for interrupting, professor, devil's advocate.
If someone says, "Listen, I like my organization the way it is.
I've got people that I've known for a long time.
Yeah, we sort of come from a similar background and that's why our chemistry is so great.
We're similar, we know each other, we look very much alike, skin color, a whole range of issues, gender, sexual orientation, all of it," what's the problem with that?
- Well, the problem with that is the fact that if you stay within a homogenous society, team or group, you are really doing yourself a great disservice because people from a wide variety of scopes of races and genders and everything, they bring so much to the table.
Studies have shown that the more diverse and the more inclusive and the more equitable your company is, the more productive you will be.
So companies really owe it to themselves and to their employees and to their stockholders and stakeholders to really embrace these concepts, because as we grow and evolve as a society, it's something that we have to do.
It's bursting at the seams and it must be done.
- And, I'm curious about this.
Issues of social justice have been a big theme in our society, but also particularly in higher ed, and at your college it is as well.
My understanding, and I know Berkeley really well, I've done some guest lecturing there over the years, that a significant number of students who've studied in the area of social justice have gone into law school, gone to law school after that.
Talk about that.
- Absolutely, well, one of the things that we have initiated over the years is we have a pre-law advisory center where we provide advice, coaching and strategies to our students that show an interest in law school.
And we understand that our student population is very diverse.
We have lots of BIPOC students.
We have first-generation Americans, we have immigrants, we have first-generation college students.
And a lot of these students do not have anyone that looke like them that has gone to law school or are practicing law.
And so we understand that, and we are trying to help our students to have measurable outcomes in becoming attorneys and legal practitioners, and also to diversify the bar, do our little part in diversifying the bar and the bench.
- Talk about diversity, our producer, Abi, who was doing a pre-interview with you shared this with us, and it really got my attention.
Age diversity.
- Mhm.
- There's real age diversity, is there not?
Within not just the college but also those who are pursuing law school after, talk about that.
Age doesn't get included in diversity very often.
- (chuckles) Thank you.
Yeah, age diversity is equally important because we have many generations of students that are in colleges, not just our college, but many other colleges.
We have students as young as 19, all the way up to 63.
And I've actually worked with students as the pre-law advisor.
I've worked with students in those age categories from 19, all the way to 63, that have expressed an interest in law school.
And a part of it, I think, Steve, has to do with, people are very, very concerned about civil liberties and of justice.
And I think in the modern era, in the last couple of years, it has really been a watershed moment to bring lots of voices to this table.
And I believe the country is a renaissance of this particular initiative, DEI initiatives.
And having all generations involved is very, very important and critical to society.
- If anything, Professor Bansile, if anything positive that has come out of the horrific, very public, they're not incidents, they're murders on camera, like George Floyd murder on camera, if anything positive come out of that situation and others is that there's more of an interest on the part of more people, not everyone and not enough people, but to care deeply about civil rights, social justice, and equity.
And so, Professor Moya Bansile, Co-chair the Berkeley College Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Advisory Committee, I wanna thank you so much for joining us, we appreciate it.
- Thank you so much, Steve, have a wonderful day, thank you.
- You too, as well.
We'll be right back after this.
To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.
- He's back, our media partner and colleague, Tom Bergeron, owner and editor of ROI-NJ.
You'll see the website up for ROI-NJ.
Good to see you, Tom.
- Always good to be here, Steve.
How you doing?
- I'm doing great.
Hey, listen, we're going into May 2020.
This will be see a little after, but there was a ReNew Jersey Business Summit.
Where did that take place?
- Atlantic City, the Borgata, if you wanna give 'em a shout-out, very nice.
- No problem with that.
Hey, let's just say that, as I read about it in ROI, there may have been different perspectives on the business climate in New Jersey, one from business leaders, and the other one from, I think, Governor Murphy.
Is that fake news or accurate, Tom Bergeron?
- No, I think that's a fair response.
The governor has a lot of touchpoints that he can mention for business.
He can talk about the bond rating going up.
He can talk about revenues going up.
He can talk about, you know, unemployment and GDP growth, but the business community isn't quite as sold as he is, and they see a lotta shortcomings from what's going on ahead.
- Be more specific.
What, 'cause I believe Michele Siekerka was there from NJBIA, Tom Bracken from the Chamber of Commerce, whole range of other business leaders.
What are their primary two or three concerns about where the business community is in New Jersey these days?
- So look, the number one issue is just the communication.
It's just worrying that the governor's office and the governor and the priorities and the legislature, it's a little bit more on the social fabric of the state, which certainly needs attention, and less on the business.
The number one issue for all business people that you talk to is the unemployment fund.
Everybody knows.
Maybe people don't know.
Look, I'm (inaudible) Everybody paid out, and now, it's up to the businesses to replenish the fund.
In about 40 other states, the governor has used federal money to replenish that fund.
In this state, they have not, and honestly, it's to the tune of about $1.4 billion that the business communities are on the hook for.
- Hold on, Tom, Tom, one second.
Let's put this in perspective.
The Unemployment Compensation Fund is there for people who are unemployed, who've lost their jobs.
There's a fund that pays them for X number of weeks, okay.
Are you saying that the unemployment fund in New Jersey, there's a fiscal problem with it?
- Well, it needs to be replenished because we build up the unemployment fund when times are good, right?
You yourself.
- Right.
- The employee pays into it, and the employer pays into it.
Once it gets paid out, it needs to be replenished, and right now, they're looking at about a $1.4 billion shortfall.
- So hold on, but there, Wait a minute.
Give us a sense of the amount of federal dollars that came into New Jersey, particularly around the pandemic, A, and B, why couldn't and shouldn't those dollars be used to replenish the unemployment fund?
- Listen, it's billions and billions, six or eight billion, I believe, plus there's the four billion we borrowed, plus there's the idea that the revenues, which they said were gonna go down, actually went way up.
The state has more money than they ever have had, and the business community is asking to use those federal dollars to replenish the fund, and the governor and the legislature have other ideas that they wanna do it, and they said, "Well, we'll spread it out over three years," so that way, the 1.4 billion is over three years instead of one year, which is nice, but again, about 40 other states have used federal money to replenish that fund.
- (sighs) You know, Tom, I believe it was the Gannett poll, but it could've been another one, and if I have this wrong, my bad, but several polls have shown this.
Most New Jerseyans.
I mean, I love New Jersey, proud of New Jersey, to be a part of the state, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, love working here, but a lotta my friends, and this is anecdotal, but the polls are showing this.
The surveys are showing it.
More and more New Jerseyans are either leaving the state for Florida, the Carolinas, whatever, or thinking about leaving the state, or are they just my friends, Tom?
- No, you're absolutely right, and there was a poll that came out just yesterday, or a few weeks ago, as we now know, from Monmouth, that it had, I have it right here, 60% of New Jerseyans are thinking about leaving the state.
This comes at a time when the quality of life metric in the state is going up.
People are happier here, but they still wanna leave.
Again, there's the cost of living.
There's an affordability issue, and that really gets to where the business community was.
When we were down at the ReNew Summit, we asked business leaders, unofficial poll, just me walking around the room, grabbing people.
Said, "Hey, if you could start your business again today, notwithstanding any family connection to the state, but just for the business climate, would you start your business in New Jersey?"
And I had 46% gave a hard no, no way.
- Hard no.
- Hard no.
We gave 'em one to five, with five being no, and I had people say, "Can I say 11?
Can I say 14?"
So it's a catch- - What's their biggest beef, Tom Bergeron?
- The biggest beef is that the taxes are high.
The regulations are high, and there's not enough done to help the business community.
We have the highest corporate business tax in the country, which we raised a couple years ago, and people are saying, "Hey, revenues have never been better.
Federal money's never been better.
How about lowering that 12.5%?"
"Well, you know, all options are on the table," is the response that is always given.
- So let me ask you this.
Governor Murphy wins this election that takes place.
It's a tight election in 2021 against Jack Ciattarelli, and New Jersey has about a million more registered Democrats than Republicans.
To what degree do you, and this is your sense as a journalist, as an observer of the scene, to what extent do you sense that Governor Murphy is very much focused on New Jersey?
But we've had governors in the past, New Jersey, particularly our last governor, Chris Christie, with a real eye toward the White House.
Do you believe that Governor Murphy genuinely is thinking about A, the White House, and B, can you be functioning effectively doing both things: thinking about higher office and doing your job in New Jersey?
Loaded question, I know.
- It is, and I'm gonna give you a loaded answer, as in yes and yes.
Governor Murphy absolutely is thinking about running for president.
He's absolutely doing things that would prepare himself to run for president.
- Like what?
- Well, I mean, just what can you do for safety?
What can you do for social services?
What can you do to raise your business numbers that he likes to quote?
He wants to show that he's a solid, progressive governor that's making things work, and look, the bond rating is going up.
For the first time in 20-some-odd years, it's going up.
So there are some things he can point to, which is fair.
I believe he's an honest man who believes what he says and believes that his progressive road will put the state in a better place and put the country in a better place.
Business leaders may not totally agree, but he's certainly doing what he thinks will work and what the voters re-elected him to do.
- Real quick: the term affordability is being thrown around a lot, Tom, but it means different things to different people, and different people in different positions have different perspectives on what to do about it.
When we say affordability in New Jersey, we're talking property taxes, top of the list, income taxes, housing, right, just living here.
Gas is what it is everywhere.
It's very expensive.
What exactly can an elected official do, whether in Trenton, in the state House, or the governorship?
What do you actually do as relates to affordability?
New Jersey's an expensive state.
- New Jersey's an expensive state.
You pay a lot, you get a lot.
The legislature and the governor, in the simplest terms, can, quote, lower taxes, but the governor can quote that he's lowered taxes 17 times.
I'm asking you, I'm asking the viewers, can anyone identify one single time where they felt their tax rate was going down?
It all comes out in the wash.
The general idea, the general feeling is do you feel you're getting a bang for your buck and getting a lot for your money?
And for a while, I think people did.
I think right now, the minute when, you know, prices go up for, you know, any various reasons, they're gonna start looking in other directions and say, "This is a tough place to live," but there's a lotta tough places to live.
- Also, I wanna make sure we say this: New Jersey has one of the best public education systems in the nation, a great workforce as well, and I'm not gonna do a commercial for New Jersey, but listen, it's easy to talk about all the challenges in our state, and problems, but there's a lotta great things too, which is why some of us aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
Hey, Tom Bergeron, owner and editor of ROI-NJ, one of our terrific media partners at the Caucus Educational Corporation.
Thanks, Tom.
- My pleasure.
- I'm Steve Adubato.
That is Tom Bergeron.
He's with ROI.
Check them out.
We'll see you next time.
- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.
Funding has been provided by The North Ward Center.
The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.
TD Bank.
New Jersey Sharing Network.
NJM Insurance Group.
Summit Health Delta Dental of New Jersey.
The Healthcare Foundation of New Jersey.
And by Johnson & Johnson.
Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.
And by Jaffe Communications.
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